Category: Jobs and Employment
Hi people:
I don't normally start new threads, but I'm trying to kill some time here, writing is a source of stress releif for me, and I'd like some input--whatever it may be. Here's my story:
I'm a freelance writer, so in order to get new job leads, I cruise different classifide sites from time to time. I rarely come across anything very lucrative, but once in a while--You know... I'm hopeful. With that said, recently I came across a fulltime ghostwriting job. I've done ghostwriting work before, and I don't really mind doing it, although it is tedious, etc. Anyway, this company claimed to be a publishing house seeking new ghostwriters to work for their authors; They claimed to be putting out best-selling books in large quantities and they need new writers ASAP.
Now, before I go on, I'll explain what a ghostwriter is. It's basically a behind-the-scenes writer who will write a book, article, etc. in the name or a different person--the intended author. So, maybe a little unethical perhaps, but it pays good money and puts food on the table, so whatever. Recently, several publishing companies have cropped up; They're the kind who offer to write, publish, and promote yoru story--with your name on it, of course. Are they scams? Well, no, not really. Many people have interesting stories to tell and are willing to pay big bucks to not have to make much f an effort to tell it. That's why everyone from Brittney Spears to Hannah Montana, to Yo Mama have published books in the last ten years.
Anyway, that's the sort of company whose classified posting I'm talking about. they seemed ligit; They wanted a resume, a well-written cover letter. After your resume was aproved, you, the applicant woudl have to complete two writing tests, sign a nondisclosure agreement, and then if yu were accepted, you'd be part of the team. Ready to roll.
So of course, I jumped on the oportunity. I sent them a resume I labored over extensively, a cover letter that was creative and well-thought out. They sent me a writing test in response to my submission of the afore mentioned documents. It was a twenty-page ebook on weight loss that I had to rewrite and fix in a time span of twenty-four hours. Very very stressful and timeconsuming, but I finished it within the allotted time frame. After submitting the writing test, I guessed they must have been happy with my work because they sent me the NDA, and said that after signing and sending it back to them, they'd like to talk to me further about the job position. I did so, and was told that I should wait for someone to email me and schedule a phone interview. I was told that on Monday; They said they'd get back to me within a week. Now it's thursday, and I still haven't heard anyting. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do at this point; Should I email them again, reminding them about scheduling my interview, or should I wait for someone to contact me like they said they would. I hope I didn't do the writing test for nothing; I'm between jobs now, and I have to say I'm sort of counting on this opportunity. Sorry if this post is a bit pointless, but I had to do something to vent my frustrations and kill some time.
I know this is far from what you wanna hear, but this really sounds too good to be true. best of luck to you, though.
Here's my thoughts:
First of all the truth behind NDA and Noncompete agreements:
They are not contracts of employment, they are simply documents saying you won't kiss and tell, and that you won't work for the competition within the agreed-upon time frame. Do nott confuse the two, ever.
Now about follow-up: This is the biggest mistake most people make. You must at all costs follow up. People "don't want to be rude," are too modest, and basically get walked all over because they do not have an assertive follow-up strategy. I lost my music business in the mid 1990s in part because I was not good at follow-up and lost business to so-called assholes / was being too nice a guy.
So yes, follow up with them, contact them again. And be a player. When you talk to them, you think what they have to offer you is amazingly valuable. But unfortunately, there are just so many opportunities banging down your door, you have to make some decisions. And you really don't want to be deciding anything without their offer on the table. You're not desperate: you're just extremely busy and because you really value this offer, you don't want them to end up losing the opportunity of working with you.
Two things are absolute smells of death: Being the polite and nice / modest / religious / new-age or whatever froo froo type who lets everyone else cut in line, and second, being desperate.
The truth is, in the dating scene players get dates, and in the employment scene, players get listened to. Sounds unfair? Take it from someone who may be old enough to be your uncle, and who played the 90s nice guy game, and lost every single time he played it, you don't want to be any of those things. The newer softer sensitive types are wrong, the religious types are wrong, the propaganda is all and entirely wrong.
If you're the nice and polite sensitive type waiting your turn, you will be overlooked by people who do a better job of follow-up than you, even if they are far less qualified.
So find out who you need to contact, find out as much as you can about them and their position, and play to their ego without kissing ass. Treat them as peers with whom you want to have a professional relationship: not as your superior. Make it always apparent that you have a lot of plates spinning at the moment, but you consider them important enough to prioritize them. So long as they consider you the same. When they want to set an appointment with you, you have to check your calendar (even if it's just taking two seconds to act like you're doing it), and you can squeeze them in. Get them whatever it is they think they need. You are selling them an opportunity, not offering yourself to them as a subservient.
Many of us learned these lessons far too late, played the nice polite guy, and lost untold thousands of dollars / time / effort / energy / resources we can never ever get back because we did not do things this way. You want to be successful, not look back at 40 or 50 at years of wasted effort, barely making it and passed-up opportunities because you were "a nice guy". This is as much true of women as men: it's totally gender-neutral.
The so-called assholes or players? The ones we made fun of as younger people? Their kids, not ours, get the best of the best. Their retirements are secured. Even if they lost during the most recent recession, they had enough to bounce back.
This is not related to occupation, gender, race, sexual orientation, or creed. The machinery of civilization is full of the so-called nice people, doing all the mundane jobs and can't raise the ten bucks it often takes to get something done. The same is true of the breadlines, by the way.
One final thought though: I use the term 'player' loosely. Don't ever be dishonest, because you will get caught. Always be true to your accomplishments and abilities, in the Polonius sense of the word. Don't BS , but separate yourself from the sea of so-called nice and polite and sensitive types.
I've been on both ends of this: passed up on a lot of things because I wasn't the asshole someone else was, and also accidentally passed someone up who was really really talented but someone else got my attention in the constant barrage of things going on, and got themselves hired. They were OK and all, but I never knew till years later that the one I passed up would have actually ddone my employer wonders. So by being a bit of a player, you are in fact doing them a favor as much as you. I wish that very talented guy had been a bit of a player.
Just remember: in the real world, nobody will ever speak up for you except you. In my case, I had no excuse: I had an upbringing that gave me the proper skills and equipment, I got nothing unless I spoke up and made it happen. However, I like a fool went along with polite cultured things in my earlier years of employment imagining that "things were different". I'm sorry I ever did. That was a let-down to myself and those who depend on me financially.
Leo Guardian:
Thanks so much. Great post. I actually did follow up with them; I wrote them back today because the lady who contacted me on Monday said they'd get back to me this week. So I figured, Friday is the last week day; Perfect day for a follow up. I wasn't overly polite but I wasn't being an ass hole either. Basically, I inquired about the status of the application; I asked if I should be expecting further correspondence from the company or, if for some reason my application had been haulted. I don't know if that was the exact right way of going about it, but I don't think I was pandering to them, nor was I being a pushover. I agree with you that a person has to be a go-getter; The passive ones get nothing done. So I wasn't shy about following up.
And yes, I do know the difference between an NDA and a contract; So far, I only signed an NDA. But thanks for the clear explanation, because I'm sure it'll be helpful to others who come across this thread.
I resorted to contacting the same person who initially corresponded with me after I submitted my application, because they don't have any specific contact info on their web site, nor do I have a phone number for them. so we'll see how it turns out. I'll update the thread when I have an outcome. Thanks again, leo. Very informative and compelling post.
Well said, leo. and to Write Away, good for you for standing your ground and following up. I definitely hope you get the position.
Well, I sent the followup email at noon today and as of yet, I haven't received a reply. So I guess it's a lost cause. Oh well. So be it. The way I'm going to look at it is, it's their loss not mine. I'm a hard worker and I'm good at what I do. If they're not satisfied with that sort of thing for some reason, that's not my problem. I'll just keep on doing my freelance thing and keep getting employed on a project to project basis. Works for me. I won't send them another inquiry because if they're some sort of a scam, I don't want to look like a fool. I also don't want to beg. Opportunities come and go; If not this one, there's going to be some other one eventually.
Don't give up just yet, if they have sent you a NDA, you will have at least half a chance, or at least, it shows that they did, or still do, consider you. I would say, give them a call on monday, just to confirm they got your follow up email, that also tell them that you care.
IF they say they do, and will contact you back, wait for a day or two, if they haven't contacted you on wednesday, give them a call on thursday morning, and ask to speak to the person that contacted you earlier.
Let them know you also got some other offer coming up your way, but you really wanting to work with them and taste the water that way. If they say, well, they don't think it will work between you and them, them you know for sure, you aren't selected this time.
Regardless though, i think it is good, at least to have your name and profile out there, even if you are not selected.
Anyway, good luck and all the best.
ps: keep us update with the progress. :)
I agree with buttercup here. Sometimes getting a little pushy shows them you mean business. I don't mean constant, Email every hour on the hour kind of thing, but as Buttercup said, drop another message every couple days, or call if you can, at least once.
I disagree. as I said above, this clearly sounds like a scam.
whatever the poster decides to do, though, sticking to one's guns is important; whether you choose to let it go, or keep hoping you'll hear from them.
Scam or not, Soon will be review. Either way though, i forget to mention, be very careful with the legality side of things. That means, don't overly excited to get in to an agreement or a contract too easily. Specially with copyright issues, you may not know what will come your way in the future, and if you sell your rights to a company, you might bound by that for a long time. Just be aware, be very careful, before you sign anything in black and white. Might be worth to consult an expert to go thru your agreement in details with you.
Don't give up! These companies can get busy from time to time. I'm sure you aren't the only ghost writer they have in mind. Give it another week. Try not to be to pushy.
Good luck I do hope it works out for you!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it could be a scam, too. It's a good thing I'm keeping my options open and my employment isn't just hinging on this one opportunity. Their web site doesn't give much information; All they have is a video which very fervently tries to solicit new clients. And I haven't found much about them when I did some research on Google... I knew all of that before I signed the NDA, but I signed it anyway, because the correspondence between myself and the contact person there seemed genuine. Unfortunately, many scams are made to appear genuine these days. That's what makes them good scams. Thanks for everyone's input. I think I'll move on from this opportunity, or pseudo-opportunity, and be in search of the next. My only hope is that I find something similar soon, so that I don't have to work freelance; Something that won't turn out to be a scam.
Hmm. That could be a good or a bad thing. Their website doesn't sound at all promising from what you've described. As for research on google, well, usually, if they're a scam, scam prevention results will pop up all over the place. that is to say, if they've been discovered yet. But the fact you haven't found a tonne of people raving about their career there isn't really promising, either.
Well, you got practice at follow-up, something that academia does not teach, and society practically trains people against.
So, you're ahead of a lot of people now. It's never a mistake to have followed up and been assertive.
By way of one more example, I was looking for a head barista when I was running a coffee cart, someone who could not only make coffee drinks, but look after the others who were there and keep the place sharp.
My cell phone was ringing off the hook, and my email box was full of applicants. I don't remember anyone else I interviewed: only the one I hired. She went against everything the recruiters and job people say to do in an interview. She was straight, to the point, pointed out exactly what she saw in my operation - the good, the bad and the ugly. And, when *she* followed up with me, she asked not only if I was considering her, but what I was thinking about what she said.
She got the job.
It wasn't just that she made a bit more noise than the rest of them: it's that she was straight and to the point, no funny stuff, made it clear why she and her ideas was what I needed, and it was mine to either win or lose.
Again, though, she knew the business, just like you apparently know the writing business, and made no bones about what she did and didn't know. But no apologies for what she did know.
So, take this experience even if they aren't legit, and know that in part your follow-up helped you figure this out. Trust me: no matter what the recruiter and job placement types say, interviewing is a pain in the ass, and there are more applicants and kiss-asses out there, more exact resumes that look like they came from them job placement places, than you will ever know. And all it looks like is a landscape of homogeny, you can't tell the difference between one and the next. But the people who are really confident about what it is they do know, and not insecure about what they don't, and put it right out there for you, get noticed.
They get noticed in part because they are what a former CEO I worked for used to call, the gorilla in the room. They're not walking in lock-step with the rules of the road, they're there to get the job done.